Uncle Monk Interview – Tommy Ramone and Claudia Tienan

I came to New York City during the summer of 2001.  Before September 11th.  After the death of Joey Ramone.

I may have missed Joey and the heyday of the ‘70’s scene at what became the epicenter of American punk rock at 315 Bowery, but CBGB (which, somewhat surprisingly, stands for country, bluegrass, blues) was still a bit like the CBGB I had heard about, read about, and wondered about for so long.

At that time, there was still some semblance of a scene surrounding the legendary club.  Bands still auditioned to play there, touring bands routed their tours right through its doors, the punks from St. Mark’s still found their way down the Bowery most nights, voyeurs like myself still attended shows regularly and the overall feeling was still one of camaraderie and celebration for the past, present and future of this significant little club.  At that time, we were all still a part of something (though bits of evidence of what was to come were beginning to seep in, one high-rise condo at a time).  A scene that started in the ‘70’s that, though changed over time, was still very much present in the New York I knew in 2001 and the years following until the untimely demise of CBGB in 2006.

It’s now 2010 and I’m living in Nashville.

It is time for the Nashville Songwriters’ Association International’s annual songwriters’ festival Tin Pan South.  Tommy Ramone (founding member of, well, The Ramones) and his partner Claudia Tienan (formerly of The Simplistics) were slated to participate as current bluegrass outfit Uncle Monk.

I’ve spent far too much time daydreaming about what it would be like to sit down with one of my musical idols and, you know, talk.  In these fairly general musings, I imagine myself a relaxed, funny and interesting conversationalist, asking questions no one ever had the nerve to ask before – moving fluidly from one topic to the next, peppering the conversation with intelligent and insightful comments.

When I was presented with the opportunity to actually sit down with such a person(s) – that would be both Tommy Ramone and Claudia Tienan – I was not exactly the Lester Bangs protégé I’d imagined I’d be, but I did manage to stammer out a few of the questions that I had been pondering since I heard that punk rock icon Tommy Ramone had abandoned his drumsticks and leather jacket for a mandolin and was picking out bluegrass tunes.

Prior to the interview, I had the chance to actually see Uncle Monk perform at Nashville’s own Station Inn, along with bluegrass virtuoso Tim O’Brien and songwriting hero Sonny Curtis (of Buddy Holly and The Crickets).  It was, without a doubt, one of my favorite Tin Pan South shows in memory.  After the show, I managed to discuss the possibility of an interview of sorts with Tommy.  He agreed and a time was tentatively set for the next day.  Cut to the next day.  A bundle of frayed nerves, I left my office a half hour before I was scheduled to meet with Tommy and Claudia at 3:00pm, even though, in theory, it was only 15 minutes to drive to our meeting spot.  I wanted to arrive a few minutes ahead of time, set up, calm down and wrap my ahead around the idea of what was about to happen.  Unfortunately, my forethought was rewarded with vast quantities of aggravation.

On the way to our meeting spot, I encountered a ridiculous amount of grid-lock, so I made what might be considered an illegal U-Turn and tried an alternate route.  Naturally, school was letting out in that direction.  Then I came upon a fender bender, which had stopped traffic in both directions.  Of course.  As time and several police cars sped by, my anxiety grew.

I was going to be late.  To my interview.  With Tommy Ramone and Claudia Tienan.  Of course.  I managed to call Tommy to let him know that I’d likely be late.  He was, predictably, fine with this news.  I, on the other hand, was the one yelling and cursing at the slow moving traffic.  I eventually arrived, parked illegally (sorry Nashville) and sprinted towards our meeting spot – literally.  It was 2:59 and Tommy and Claudia were patiently waiting for me.  I made it, but I was not at all the calm and collected version of myself I had imagined.

In a later retelling of this story – to my dad – I tried to make him understand the level of my anxiety by asking him to imagine how he would feel if he was about to sit down with Paul McCartney (or Neil Young or Eric Clapton, etc. You get the idea – insert musical hero here: ________) and he was met with resistance at every turn on his way to Sir Paul.  He got it then.

After greeting Tommy and Claudia, the next thing I knew, we were sitting in a booth and I was asking my first question.  The interview had begun.

Jaime Scorby:  In high school, you were in a band called The Tangerine Puppets with Johnny Ramone.  At that time, who would you say your main influences were?

Tommy Ramone:  Well we had a lot of influences.  Basically, I came to the US from Budapest when I was very young and as soon as I arrived, it coincided totally with the birth of rock and roll.  So, on the radio, all the AM stations, there was no FM rock stations at the time, they all played Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, The Everly Brothers. . . I could go on and on – that’s all that was on the radio, Buddy Holly, of course – they played these songs at the same time they would play Perry Como and Frank Sinatra, but it was mostly rock and you’d go from station to station and it’s all you heard.

It was just an incredible time to arrive in the U.S.  That was the main influence on all of us growing up – the radio just had a bunch of incredible stuff and it was a major influence on us.  Then, later on there was, of course, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and the rest of the British invasion groups of the mid 60’s. Then came Jimi Hendrix and Cream and groups like that.  Then after that we were very much influenced by the music coming out of Detroit – the MC5 and The Stooges and Alice Cooper and on and on.  We were also influenced by David Bowie, T. Rex, Slate, a lot of influences.  We were sorta like an encyclopedia of music.

JS: Encyclopedia of music – I love that.

So, you began working in a recording studio – then you opened your own studio and that’s how The Ramones entered into the picture.  You were with them for what is often referred to as the “Classic Period” from ‘74-’77/’78, during which time you were the drummer, the manager and the producer of Ramones, Leave Home and Rocket To Russia. . .   Could you tell me just a little about that exciting time period?

TR:  Sure.  What happened was, at the time, we had opened this studio, called Performance Studios – Monte Melnick (later he became the Tour Coordinator for the Ramones) and I.  I went to see the New York Dolls and they were just so exciting and so interesting.  And what I noticed about them was that although they weren’t virtuoso musicians, they were putting on the best show at the time.  They had excitement and enthusiasm and I realized that’s why they were good.   And then I thought about these guys I knew – these interesting people that I knew in my hometown of Forest Hills, NY and I said, “boy, you know, those guys – you know, they would be really interesting if I could get them to start playing together.”  Cause I’d been in that band with Johnny, but he had stopped playing at the time.  As you know, we were in bands together in high school.  So, I would call him up and tell him to get an instrument and start playing again because he was very charismatic and he should be playing music.

So, eventually, I became their manager and we put together a band – that would be Dee Dee, Johnny and Joey and this kid named Richie – but Richie, unfortunately. . .we wanted him on bass, but he couldn’t manage it, so there was just the 3 of them and that’s how it started.  So, I was their manager originally and we found out that Joey was the best singer and, so, we made him the lead singer and then we needed a drummer.  The most interesting thing is that on that very first rehearsal, they came in and had original songs, which I didn’t expect.  These were like very strange songs – songs like I never heard before.  I thought, “wow, this is interesting.”  So, we were still looking for a drummer – Joey was the drummer, but then since we made him lead singer – cause he had the best voice and he looked really interesting up front – we needed a drummer and started looking for drummers.  But what we were doing was so unique and different that the other drummers just couldn’t get it, so eventually, I ended up playing the drums – out of necessity.

JS:  It’s so interesting how all of that came together – I had forgotten about Richie – his involvement didn’t occur to me as I was pulling together these questions.

Speaking of questions, Claudia, I understand that you came to NY from Minneapolis and that you were going to attend Hunter College and then, somewhere along the way, you joined The Simplistics.  Could you tell me a little about your time with The Simplistics and who your influences were?

The Simplistics were a late 80’s College band that I was in.  We were influenced by the UK music scene of the time, The Cure, PIL, Jesus and Mary Chain and groups like that.  We never recorded.  There was a more famous group called the Simplistics on the West Coast but we were not aware of them.  The Simplistics were kinda a smallish, NY underground alternative type of band.  We were very influenced by the whole alternative scene I grew up in like Robyn Hitchcock, The Replacements, that kind of thing.  Actually, when I was in MN I hung around the whole group of kids around the Oarfolk Record Store scene.  The Suicide Commandos were like one of the first punk bands there and then we kinda all came to NY. . .   I liked the whole alternative, singer/songwriter Vic Chestnut, Townes Van Zant, Steve Earle, Iris Dement, Gillian Welch, Lucinda Williams, Todd Snider.  So, yeah, just basically those alternative singer/songwriters.

JS:  Now I would like to talk a little bit about life after The Simplistics and after The Ramones. . .

Tommy, after you left The Ramones, you went on to produce other huge names: The Talking Heads, Redd Kross, my favorite Replacements record Tim – how did this happen?

TR:  Well, basically, the acts I produced just sorta came to me.  I wasn’t really soliciting work, but I was looking for anything different or new or unusual or exciting.  And if something like that came along, then I would get involved in it.  You know, I had a wonderful time working with The Replacements – when you have a chance to work with such talented artists as Paul Westerberg. . . and all of them really.  I really loved the Stinson brothers and Chris Mars and Bob Stinson was a very unique guitar player.  So, it was a wonderful way to work, but so was Redd Kross because they were unique, too.  I had a lot of fun.  The Talking Heads we toured with when I was with The Ramones, so that’s how I got involved with that.  So, that was the stuff I would work on – the stuff that interested me.

JS: How do you feel that your musical influences, from all of the ones you mentioned earlier on to all of the ones you had at the time, did they influence your choices behind the mixing board when you were in the role of producer?  Were there certain albums that you sort of drew inspiration from as a producer?

TR: Yeah.  I was very much into the sound of records – even as a child.  I would always listen to how the record sounded.  Then, I was watching late night TV one night and Phil Spector was the guest and he was talking about how he was a record producer and I’d never heard that term before because I was a child.  And I said, “a record producer?  That sounds great.”  And so that planted the seed in the back of my mind.

But I was just into good sounding records in general.  There wasn’t any specific thing.  Of course I was very much into the way The Beatles produced records and things like that – that very much stuck in my mind, cause their records were so well recorded, but there were so many others that were great.  I was just influenced by many things.  But the way I work is very much artist based – it depends on the artist.  What I like to do is combine whatever it is that makes them what they are with just my aesthetics – which are kind of – well, I guess everyone has their own unique way of doing things. . . but that’s the way I like to work is to combine whoever I’m working with, with my own taste and sensibilities.  That’s kind of the way I’ve been working and, of course, I had been influenced by all those other great sounding records.

JS:  Well, certainly whatever you’re doing behind the boards seems to have worked out.  Changing directions a little bit here.  I know that there has been more than one incarnation of Uncle Monk – I have a quote here describing the first incarnation of Uncle Monk – in the early ‘90’s as a “melodic rock band” or a “jam band.”

I would like to know a little bit more about that, but first I suppose I should ask:  When did you first meet?

TR:  Well, after I left The Ramones and, a little bit later, after I had already been producing, I decided to go back to college, just because it seemed interesting.  I took some courses and there I met Claudia. Later we put together the original Uncle Monk in the early ‘90’s.  It was a three piece, we had a drummer, Claudia played bass.  It was sorta like, a psychedelic jam band.  That’s when we first started having old time and bluegrass music incorporated into our music.

JS:  That ties into my next question – regarding going from kind of a jam band to more of a bluegrass based band, was that a conscious choice or more of a natural progression?

TR:  Yeah, it was a progression.  Basically, I got a mandolin and a banjo in the early 1990’s to incorporate into that and just fell in love with the instruments.  And it coincided exactly with when we moved upstate.  We had lived in the city for a very long time and had a nice apartment in The Village – so that was really cool.  But, then, Claudia’s mother got a place upstate and we went and visited her and for the first time in my life I sort of fell in love with the country.  I had been to the country a lot as a child, but it was no big deal.  But to me, at that particular time, it somehow rang a bell or something.  So, we found this little cottage for sale and we got that and then we started spending a lot of time upstate and then we started playing the instruments a lot and it was an evolution.  We were having so much fun playing the acoustic instruments that we started dropping the electric ones, although our record still has some electric instruments on it – though only a few – but there’s less vestige of that.  And now we’re pretty much all acoustic.

JS:  Who are some of your country and bluegrass influences?

CT:  The Carter Family, Hazel Dickens, Tim O’Brien, Sam Bush. . .

TR:  Bill Monroe, Flatt and Scruggs, Ricky Skaggs, Doyle Lawson. . . these are some of the main influences.  Of the young people The Freight Hoppers – they are a modern old time band.  Modern acts we like are Bela Fleck, Sam Bush, Jerry Douglas, Chris Thiele.  We’re fans.  Just everything – in country, Ernest Tubb and any kind of country that has some edge to it.  George Jones, Loretta Lynn. . . anything that’s good.  Also The Foghorn Stringband is another great modern old time band.

JS:  This is a bit redundant, but there’s a point to it.  The reason I keep asking about your influences is . . .  and I know Tommy, you just mentioned that when you moved upstate that when you first really took to country and acoustic instruments and you mentioned last night, at the show, when you were introduced yourselves and you talked about the Buddy Holly and Sonny Curtis and The Lubbock, TX Sound and that you really could hear it in The Ramones’ music – but, again, in your words, were there any early indicators that your music would eventually go in this direction?

Can we hear any of the influences you’ve just discussed in the music of The Ramones or in the music of The Simplistics?  Can we point to certain examples?

TR:  Yeah, I’ve always been into old time music and country and bluegrass – so, yeah.  Certainly my songwriting with The Ramones was very much influenced by country – it just might be hard to hear.  A record I produced, for The Ramones when Marky Ramone was playing drums, had major, major influences of country – it’s called Road To Ruin.  If one listens closely, they can hear lines very similar to the Uncle Monk record musically.  On certain songs like Questioningly and Don’t Come Close on the Road to Ruin record by the Ramones there are many country influenced guitar lines.  Since I originated those riffs and they come from my sensibilities there is a similarity to the mandolin riffs on a song like Need a Life on the Uncle Monk album.

JS:  I was going to mention Questioningly.  That’s definitely a song where I can really hear the influences you’ve talked about.

TR:  A lot of the songs on that record were country influenced.  And that was a lot of fun – we were able to put a lot of that on there.

JS:  Claudia, are there any early indicators in the music of The Simplistics that may have indicated that you would eventually go in this direction musically?

CT:  Well, I guess it was a gradual move. . .well, and also that it was just simple.  And instead of electric it was acoustic – it was very basic, not too complicated.

JS:  Like bluegrass can be. . . I’ve read a great many interviews that describe Uncle Monk as “punk bluegrass” and I feel that there many similarities to punk and bluegrass, in that it can be very stripped down, there’s a lot of 3 chord progressions, etc.

Do you agree with the “punk bluegrass” description of your music or do you feel that maybe the “punk” is thrown on there because of your past associations?

TR:  Actually, what we do is much closer to, I suppose, indie music.  The punk is associated because of my past, but some of the lyrics to some of the songs, especially the ones Claudia writes might be, well, in other words, rhythmically, they are not violent, fast songs, but there’s some lyrical content that might be classified as related to punk music, I suppose.  But, really, there’s a lot of bluegrassy acts out there – young kids – a lot of punky type of bluegrassy acts playing and we’re not like that.  A lot of people may expect us to be like that. . . but we’re kind of unique, actually, with what we do.  It’s sort of an offshoot of what we’ve always done.

I have always followed my musical sensibilities, which tend to go towards classic simplicity with an emphasis on depth and emotion.  It was like that with the Ramones and it is like that with Uncle Monk.  Although we don’t play loud music, we keep to our own esthetics, which have always been the same.  The lyrics to both the Ramones and Uncle Monk are unique, philosophical and personal, often autobiographical.

JS:  To kind of touch on what you just said, you’ve mentioned that the punk element to your music can be found in the lyrics.  I’ve also read that you, Tommy, “use the vocabulary of country and bluegrass, with the aesthetics of punk.”

I was curious as to what you meant when you referred to the “aesthetics of punk.”  Is it all the attitude of the lyrics or can it also be the stripped down nature of the music?

TR:  The attitude of the lyrics and the framework – the structural framework.  The two genres are very similar – they’re based on similar chord changes and the sentiment of the songs and what the songs are about are very similar, too.  And, where they come from.  They come from people picking up instruments and not needing to become virtuosos – or they can become virtuosos if they choose to – but not necessarily to create profound music.  Music with a lot of depth and feeling and meaning can be done with simple chords and things like that, so, in that way, they’re similar.  And, of course, bluegrass allows someone, if they choose to, to become virtuosos of the highest order.

JS:  Can you tell me about the next step for Uncle Monk?  Will you be sticking with bluegrass or do you feel there may be a further progression beyond this?

TR:  Well, we very much love the instruments – so, instrumentally, we will be sticking with this for the foreseeable future, that‘s for sure.  As far as songwriting, we don’t restrict ourselves, so, wherever that takes us.  But we’ve already been doing that.  The songs we have on the first record – there’s all kinds of things brought in.  Like, calypso and all kinds of sensibilities from other genres.  So, we don’t feel restricted in doing that.  Because, to me, what bluegrass really is. . . I mean, you get the basic bluegrass, which is what people think of as bluegrass, but at the same time a lot of it is instrumentation.

You can go off kilter and call things bluegrass just because it has mandolin or fiddle on it, but it might not be bluegrass at all.  But I think that we are actually, in a lot of ways, much more traditional, than a lot of accepted bluegrass acts now – mainstream bluegrass acts.  Because, at the core, since we love traditional bluegrass so much, it really roots us, deep down inside, to that.  So, even though some people might say, “this doesn’t sound like bluegrass” it actually, in a way, it really is.

JS:  How would you compare the Nashville music scene vs. the New York music scene?

TR:  Well, one big difference is, people listen here.  People appreciate the music.  They take it seriously and they come to hear the music.  In NY, I think a lot of times, people go to party and it’s just background noise or something.  It’s very different in that sense here.

Also, the clubs here have been around a long time, they’re established, they’re appreciated.  In NY, a lot of times, clubs come and go. . . it’s very faddish and things like that.  It’s a whole different thing.

This is a real music scene here right now.

JS: Do you feel that the evolution or even the dissolution of the NY Scene has influenced the evolution of your music in any way?

I had always been into country, bluegrass, folk, and old-time music.  But the 90’s were the first time that I had a banjo and mandolin.  It was also the first time we started going to bluegrass festivals so that opened new doors of interest and excitement for us.  Something that the NY club scene did not provide for us anymore.

JS:  I’d like to conclude with these three kind of fun and random questions:  The first question is totally unfair, but I’m going to ask it anyway.  Do you have a favorite musical memory?

TR:  We had some amazing experiences.  We were fortunate enough to open for Ralph Stanley which was amazing.  Even more amazing, one of my all time idols – top of the list – Earl Scruggs.  We had the chance to open for Earl Scruggs and he was so nice. . . I couldn’t believe it. . . cause, you know, what we do in a way is experimental. . .well, not experimental, but new.  And the people who have been most receptive to what we’re doing have been musicians like the ones in Ralph Stanley’s band.  And, you know, Ralph Stanley’s band are just some of the finest musicians there are and his son was also in that band – but at the time, they were just so complimentary and it was the same with Earl Scruggs.  It meant a lot to us that it was appreciated.  Things like that have been just amazing.

JS: If you could play with anyone – living or dead – who would it be?

CT:  Hazel Dickens.

TR:  Hazel Dickens.  That’s a good one.  There are just so many, the list is just too long.

JS:  My concluding question – which is a hard one – is, if you had to choose who your biggest musical influence ever is, who would it be?  Or top 2-3. . .

TR:  If it’s just one, we’d have to say The Carter Family.  My second choice would be The Beatles.

CT:  Mine would be Patti Smith.

JS:  This has been great.  Thanks so much to you both!

And then my time with Tommy and Claudia was over, just like that.

When I look back on it now, it’s almost hard to believe that it’s been more than 30 years since all of this started. It’s been more than 30 years since CBGB opened its doors. . . more than 30 years since bands like The Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads and Television ruled the bummed out, burned out Bowery.  Now, the Bowery shines bright – no longer with the star power and talent that was its saving grace in the ‘70’s, but with a brand new multi-million dollar paint job.  CBGB’s doors have now closed – slammed reluctantly in the faces of the new kids in town.  Kids who are still looking for, but not really finding “the scene” that they’ve undoubtedly heard about, read about and wondered about.

Even though CBGB is long gone, it’s comforting to know that the “BG” part of CBGB (country, bluegrass, blues) is alive and well and in the capable hands of original scene builder Tommy Ramone and Claudia Tienan.

by Jaime Scorby